A wonderful FaceBook exchange in reaction to my blog posting on Tim Atkin and his latest revenue generating scheme. Former WOSA CEO Su Birch is unmasked as an internet troll. What an embarrassment. After a complaint from Tim, I have amended the title of this blog from “scam” to “rip-off” which was what I called the original blog post. The word scam was a spelling mistake of scheme which I use in the first sentence. Apologies for implying a rip-off was a scam.
Keith Prothero
7 hours ago near Isleworth, United Kingdom
I do not often agree with Neil Pendock but I do most certainly agree with the comments in his latest blog post ” UK wine master Tim Atkin is on to a cushy number. He gets WOSA or Robin von Holdt to pay for his frequent trips to SA (his wife is Seffriken) and then he trousers R220 from each producer desperate for his imprimatur via an Atkin annual report on SA wine. WTF? This is cultural cringe gone mad. How many extra bottles will an Atkin OK sell?”
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Chris Kelly and 2 others like this.
Greg Sherwood Oh come on old goat… He’s a f**king journalist… not a wine merchant. He writes about wine…no different to other reviewers.
6 hours ago · Like · 1
Greg Sherwood As for Top 100 link… Those wines all tasted blind so no benefit there!
6 hours ago · Like
Samantha Suddons I don’t think I’ve ever seen Keith use the term “Wtf” ha! It must properly rub him up the wrong way!
5 hours ago · Like · 2
Francois Haasbroek Pretty sure we have to pay to see Neal Martins ratings, Decanter, Spectator, Enthusiast….. Platters…
5 hours ago · Like · 2
Keith Prothero Greg you are of course a member of the The Top 100 so will support your Chairman Francois. WA ratings I think you may agree are worth a hell of a lot more than TA
4 hours ago · Like
Tim Carlisle Commecially speaking – 90+ Parker / Martin points sell wine. Atkin sells Jack for us. Francois – Tim charges people for him to taste their wines AND charges end consumer to read it. WA, Decanter – charge to enter is a sample – WA writers pay their own wine (or WA pays – to ensure they remain independent). Matthew Jukes visits Australia lots, tastes about 5k wines, and pays himself. Winners can then be part of a UK tour of indie merchants – which does cost everyone money to do, but commercially it works for us, and I know he does very well out of it…. surely a better way?
4 hours ago · Like
Greg Sherwood Keith, I try and support all thorough, committed journos really.
4 hours ago · Like
Anne Jones Journalists aren’t charities and more than retailers are / they have to make a living!
4 hours ago · Like · 1
Keith Prothero You are a bloody diplomat. When you have had a few drinks the truth comes out. Greg that is
4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
Greg Sherwood Tim Carlisle, Atkin does not charge to taste wines. Not to my knowledge. Those are mostly laid on by WoSA or done at producers. He charges for his stickers… like all competitions / publications do.
4 hours ago · Like
Keith Prothero Sure Anne. But whose opinion on SA wine is more valid? I would back Tim James or Michael Fridjohn for example over TA. But I guess if people want to fork out R220 good luck !!
4 hours ago · Like
Keith Prothero All good for my Klout
4 hours ago · Like · 2
Greg Sherwood What’s the link for Pendocks blog Keith Prothero?
4 hours ago · Like
Keith Prothero Just Google Neil Pendock .
4 hours ago · Like
Alex Lake Why pick on Tim? Seems like a nice fellow. Yes, to be able to earn a living as a wine journalist is a nice position to be in, but I don’t think he’ll ever be as rich as you, goatie…
4 hours ago · Like · 3
Keith Prothero No I should hope not . I had to work for my money
4 hours ago · Like · 3
Alex Lake Ha!
4 hours ago · Like · 1
Keith Prothero 7am to 10 pm most days and always worked on Saturdays and often travelled on Sundays.
4 hours ago · Like
Keith Prothero No way could I have gone to Wimps or any wine lunches etc
4 hours ago · Like
Darren Brogden Tim, not sure what the point is you’re making about Tim charging to taste wine and also charge the consumer? Surely Decanter does the same (not sure about WA)? You have to pay to enter the wine into their competition and the consumer has to buy the magazine to read the results. How is that different to Tim Atkin producing a paid for report on South Africa?
4 hours ago · Like · 2
Keith Prothero Going out now. Keep the dialogue going
4 hours ago · Like · 1
Greg Sherwood Shut it down now!! Bollocks.
3 hours ago · Like · 2
Sarah Abbott Keith, the rest of Pendock’s post (titled “another MW rip off”, and copied in below) makes it clear that he resents the competition with his own tasting/review:
Producers are far better off sending us two bottles of wine for our weekly RECM best value tastings. Here are 10 advantages:
1. Wines are tasted blind;
2. There is no entry fee;
3. Tastings take place each week, not once a year;
4. Each producer is privately vouchsafed the score of her wine plus an inferred “value” compared to the competition;
5. Our verdict is passed by a panel of informed SA judges who taste wine very day, chaired by Winne Bowman, head of the Institute of Cape Wine Masters;
6. Best value wines receive 100 free bottle stickers with an option to purchase more – marketing gold;
7. Each wine entered is showcased that afternoon to consumers who buy stock when they feel the need;
8. Our activities cost WOSA and Robin nothing and many of our clients are foreign visitors;
9. Mega carbon credits are saved not flying UK winos around the planet in business class;
10. We’d never be as presumptious as classifying producers into “classes.” We got rid of Apartheid a generation ago and market to a born free generation. Tim and the Bordelais can stick with their pompous classed growth system.
Our next tasting is of MCC wines next Wednesday. If you’re a producer, do send us two bottles. If you’re a consumer, come and taste bubblies next Wednesday between 5-7pm. If you’re Tim Atkin, good luck.
3 hours ago · Like · 3
Stuart Finley KP fell out with TA a while ago……makes the thread a bit predictable IMHO.
3 hours ago · Like · 1
Jeroen Margés Consumers should depend on winemakers, not on winecritics. Period..
3 hours ago · Like · 1
Stuart Finley Unrealistic. Period.
3 hours ago · Like · 1
Anne Jones I think we all have different roles to play, and get paid what we can to make as good a living in the best trade in the world… It’s like wine – it’s worth what people are willing to pay.
3 hours ago · Like · 3
Jeroen Margés Every individual with a working palate is qualified to judge wines. It is so simple!
3 hours ago · Like · 1
Tim Carlisle Greg… Keiths post suggests he does charge to taste. Darren no problem with a wine competition but I was talking about a report a la WA… I also have no problem with charging consumers to read it. But a report should include anything that is good or it is biased by cash. A competition by definition needs entering. A report and classification should be all open. I have no problem with wosa spending money if they think they get value from it. I also as i said have no issue with paying to enter Top 100 or decanter comp. But for his general report if as keith suggests you pay for that too then that is not so good. The equivalent there is a decanter panel tasting or WA entry both of which cost just a sample. I may have either misread or been misled in my understanding of the fees though.
3 hours ago · Like
Alex Lake I guess that as all these wine-based self-promotion vehicles get going, it’s inevitable that there e will be some bitchiness between those competing for a share of hard-earned marketing budgets. Thanks for the rest of that story, Sarah.
3 hours ago · Like · 1
Warren Edwardes No harm in wine writers taking trips, hospitality, Wimbledon or cricket tickets – or even hard cash. But, if they wish to be seen as independent rather than paid PR vehicles, they should declare benefits received to allow readers to judge for themselves if there is a conflict of interest. Not many do. Just Chris Kissack and a handful of others to my knowledge.
http://wineforspicewarrenedwardes.blogspot.co.uk/…/wine…
Wine Writers should Publish a Register of Interests | Wine Spice ++
wineforspicewarrenedwardes.blogspot.com
2 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3
Francois Haasbroek Tim, producers were definitely not charged for having their wines tasted, unless my bill got lost in the mail. As for Decanter / WA report “only costing samples” …a Decanter is a cool R165 pm with our useless currency at the moment.
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Greg Sherwood Tim, best get your facts straight before firing up your quatro. Tim does not charge to taste wines and I certainly did not infer that from the goats rant. Charging to taste individual wines would be unethical in anyone’s books… It would make one a consultant… Not a journalist. WOSA does of course pay for influential journos to visit SA…. Well pay their flights… not the journos. Producers can submit wines to WOSA for journos to taste and perhaps rate / score… If they are that way inclined. Happens every where in the world.
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Tim Carlisle Greg – he said ‘he trousers R220 from each producer desperate for his imprimatur via an Atkin annual report on SA wine.’ I take annual report as the report he has just published (and not the 100 best) – which i also take to be the cause of the diatribe from Neil. That just leads me to believe that Neil has been deliberately misleading….
2 hours ago · Like
Tim Carlisle Francois – to get in a panel tasting that appears in each month? Sure the awards are costly but the panel tastings I was referring to are FOC.
2 hours ago · Like
Francois Haasbroek Tim, i am was referring to the cost a actual Decanter magazine! Its pricier reading about wine these days than drinking it!
2 hours ago · Like
Tim Carlisle Now that is a very fair point. I just friended keith and greg and get my fix like that…
2 hours ago · Like · 2
Greg Sherwood Tim… Yes… Atkin’s Saffer report costs to download. R220. Cheap considering how much work has been put in. Love Mr Atkin or hate him… The boy does know how to taste and has a good MW palate! Many ways to get your wines in Atkin’s report. Just send in samples for free! Ask Bloemendal!!
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Greg Sherwood I am in discussions to syndicate the goat rants … Subscribers only!!
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Tim Carlisle Ok i get it.. I had producers paying that (and it actually being a lot of cash) to taste not just read what he had said… My mistake.
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Su Birch I think no.1 you should ask WOSA what the facts are in regard to Tim’s travel. No 2 South Africa can do with influential advocates . No 3 why is it a problem for people to earn a legitimate living. No-one forces producers to cough up that money. And most important of all, no 4, anyone with any sense should know better than to even acknowledge Pendock in print. He never verifies a single fact (I can vouch for that…) and drives readership how? Through malicious slander and poisonous gossip.
2 hours ago · Like · 7
Greg Sherwood Su… You are an old hand…and know the deal. But many others are less savvy and believe what they read. ;))
2 hours ago · Like · 4
Su Birch Well Greg how smart do you have to be to recognise smut when you see it?
2 hours ago · Like · 5
Sarah Abbott Well said, Su. Pendock’s comment about Tim’s wife was particularly low, I thought. His whole post made me shiver, Keith Prothero. UK consumers are interested in the engagingly-communicated views of UK experts. Sorry, but even the best ‘native’ wine cri…See More
about an hour ago · Like · 5
Alex Lake Greg – this is not a goat rant – he just did a cut’n’paste on bits of Pendock’s! It is the goat’s spoon, however.
about an hour ago · Like · 1
